we need to talk about kevin book reddit

by Francene (new) - rated it 1 star. They’re mad you didn’t do something about your son that was clearly a threat given what you noticed. I don't know about the blame part. Really interested to hear people's thoughts on this book. Ultimately the only person who is responsible for Kevin's actions is Kevin. 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and … It has been a while since I read this book but it really stuck with me. So far my goal for the year is 12 books (as opposed to zero per year) and I'm already 4 books in. The first school made the problem worse, the second school was a miracle. I knew he didn't. Kevin is a mass-murderer: a boy who, shortly before his 16th birthday, kills seven classmates, a teacher and a school cafeteria worker. I saw another person assess Eva as being the only one who never underestimated Kevin. Even the dad is atrocious in his own way. Was Kevin truly born like that, or did Eva's fear and lack of attachment to him over the course of his life, until the very very end of the book, cause/exacerbate the lack of emotional bond that caused him to lack empathy for other people? "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is a very accomplished novel about a woman who gave birth to one of America's most infamous high school killers. It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. The most interesting parts in the novel for me (although it's been about a year since I've read it) were precisely when there was a very thin line between the way Eva behaved and the way Kevin behaved, for she could certainly be as calculating as he (though we … reddit has ruined me towards the name kevin. We Need To Talk About Kevin By Lionel Shriver (Harper Perennial, Paperback, 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp.) We spent hours, over days, having tests done. The only normal one in that family is the daughter and I have only seen the film to be honest but from what I can see online it looks to be true for the literature as well! Is that within their control? We Need to Talk About Kevin expands to more theaters this week. I don't think so, so I definitely agree with your points here. The book created a lot of controversy, and achieved success through word of mouth. That as awful as Kevin is, the parents are awful too, and maybe enabled his violence through their bullshit? I'm the adoptive parent of a child who had attachment issues and it was so, so hard. Franklin (though shown to be a cuddly guy in the movie) didn't see Kevin as he really was and wanted Kevin to be different, looking for his ideal son. Note: This item is eligible for click and collect. The fact that she even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is evil is odd. 17 questions answered. Ik this is an old comment, but how are things now with the child? But ultimately it’s Kevin’s fault. [Spoilers] Just watched We Need to Talk About Kevin for the first time. But I think the point is how powerless everyone in the situation is and how hard it will be to prevent things like this from happening. Book Discussion Questions: We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver. Last Updated on October 26, 2018, by eNotes Editorial. This is a moderated subreddit. That pretty much the whole time she is trying to convince herself that Kevin was born that way, and at the very end she recognizes her blame and tries to redeem herself by changing her approach in her relationship with her son. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? I don't think can blame Eva for her lack of maternal instinct, especially when she didn't want to have kids in the first place. I don't like Eva, but I think Shriver chose her for the narrative because you get to see how much of her abuse does have influence, but also how ridiculous the level of blame by the locals is as well. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? Cookies help us deliver our Services. The very ending of the book is odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree? I deleted it as I was worried about privacy, but I'm very appreciative of … If we had the same narrative style from a different character and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them? I agree, everyone is to blame to varying degrees. That’s the thing! This quote early in the book is a good introduction to the reasons for blame. We Need to Talk About Kevin (2011) - who is the fucked up one here? Leadtext: Dear Franklin, I'm unsure why one trifling incident this afternoon has moved me to write to you. The question about nature vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, and I think killers are both born and made. I'm also reading, along with my fictional book of choice, non-fiction to scratch my itch to learn about various subjects. Based on the best-selling novel of the same name, We Need to Talk About Kevin explores nature vs. nurture on a We Need to Talk About Kevin … Summary: We Need to Talk About Kevin explores the factious relationship between a mother and her evil son. I was wondering how my opinions on characters would change. I hate Kevin the first time I read the book and almost sided with the mother. I think it was purposeful. Browse Recommendations; Choice Awards; Genres; Giveaways; New Releases Readers’ questions about We Need to Talk About Kevin. If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. I am liking this even less. We Need To Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver. I can see I'm in a minority here but … Because there are people who are full-fledged psychopaths who don't kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature. One of the hardest things was that nobody believed me about how mean he could be because he was absolutely charming to everyone else. So, was the school responsible? I think the lesson here is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame. Press J to jump to the feed. Eva and Franklin both had major short-comings as parents, and there was a definite lack of attention from the doctors as they are typically the ones we hope/expect to pick up on certain behaviors as well. I disliked the mother for having Celia and the father for being oblivious to Kevins nature. I think Kevin was simply born that way. In true "when your only tool is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail", the school insisted he had ADD/ADHD. Lol thank you, I think about the book a lot and the more I do the more layers come to mind. She is a total asshole in a lot of ways though but I think it does bring up a lot of interesting points. Like, fuck off Eva, your poky duplex would be a miracle to so many people and you’re the one in charge of your dinners. ... We Need to Talk About Kevin. The Short of It: If you are already a parent, this book will make you count your blessings but if you have yet to become one, beware...this book will scare the hell out of you and could quite possibly… I think answering those can determine how much we can blame Eva-- or was he born like that? "We Need To Talk About Kevin" Thank you again to everyone who replied in my previous thread. We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, published by Serpent's Tail, about a fictional school massacre. People always ignore the warning songs because it “won’t happen to them”. 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and refused to believe Eva's concerns? I think everyone is to blame, but I can't assess the majority of where it lies. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Write your own review! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Kevin ignores Eva and makes her feel bad. It's a cycle. But are all killers in general made or born? Maybe the abuse push him to do this in an early age. 5 - do you empathize with Eva? I have caught up and seen many horror movies this year but one of the most realistic horror movies I have seen recently is "We Need To Talk About Kevin". But wow the mother and father are both so awful in their own ways. Posted April 17, 2013 by MPPL. The fact that nobody else clued in to Kevin's behavior is no surprise to me. The format is a series of letters written by Eva Khatchadourian to her absent husband, Franklin, which are a sort of analytical reminiscence about their lives before the arrival of their... Read More. She knew what he was and everyone else denied it or couldn't see through it. Can we think poorly of anyone if nothing is in anyone's control because we're all deterministic machines? Cookies help us deliver our Services. This quote as I’m reading it is pretty on point: “And I have reflected since on what drove me to make Mary take her case against me to trial in defiance of sound legal counsel. He simplifiies complicated topics, using readily understood examples and analogies without sacrificing accuracy. Furthermore, if one doesn't bond with your child, for whatever reason, can they fake it? Lionel Shriver's We Need To Talk About Kevin is an elegant exploration of guilt, says Zoë Green Zoë Green Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST First published on Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The school disagreed and required me to have him tested. Or nearly everybody is a bit to blame (except for little like his sister). We Need To Talk About Kevin (Serpent's Tail Classics) Paperback – 29 April 2010. Cause if not she has a good reason to be cold after that little shit. We Need to Talk About Kevin is the 8th novel by Lionel Shriver. Her other novels are: A Perfectly Good Family, Game Control, Ordinary Decent Criminals, Checker and the Derailleurs and The Female of the Species. Eva was definitely the only one who saw Kevin for who he really was. In her letters, Eva takes us back through her life...and life with Kevin. Eva is incredibly unlikeable, but I do feel bad for her considering how much she lost in the end. People are born this way. The first time I read it, I was horrified by the violence of Kevin. She won the 2005 Orange Prize for her eighth published novel, We Need to Talk About Kevin, a thriller and close study of maternal ambivalence, and the role it might have played in the title character's decision to murder nine people at his high school. 6 - what role does the narrative style, that being Eva recounting Kevin's life and detailing her guilt and admitting everything she did wrong, influence our perception of Eva's responsibility? Lionel Shriver’s novel We Need to Talk About Kevin features a ripped-from-the … Kevin is the most guilty. I think Kevin was both born and made, but the degree of which is what I really enjoy discussing. I ignored most of the Columbine coverage because I was a high schooler at the time and things were awful enough already, but is this a non-funny satire of self-absorbed parents of school shooters? Update- I didn’t realize that she uses the “r” word as an insult in the book. Pick up your parcel at a time and place that suits you. I'm going to be starting The Hobbit, followed by the Lord Of The Rings and then maybe read the first Dune book. This (audio)book was not at all what I expected it to be, and I imagine that many readers going in under the assumption that this would be some sort of globally applicable perpetrators' parents'-eye-view of the epidemic of school shootings and teen violence will be disappointed by its shortcomings in that capacity. Yes and no. Michelle Wright 2 August 2005. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Interesting. The book is also written from the perspective of her sending the letters after the school massacre so it could skewer how their relationship was prior to that point. The scene I am referring to is last scene where Tilda Swinton's character, Eva, finally has a breakthrough with Kevin. That was behind my choice to read it again. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN Lionel Shriver . It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. In MRI scans of a normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are differences, so they can be born. I've both read the book and watched the movie so lemme know if I am mixing them up. It's a weird narrative though if you know anything about very selfish abusive people though, aren't they introspective and they lie to themselves so they never have to feel the guilt she did. I changed his school and his "ADD" disappeared. Word Count: 2350. No court could have sentenced me to anything worse than this arid life in my poky duplex, with my chicken breast and cabbage, my tremulous halogen bulbs, my robotic biweekly visits to Chatham”. However, most serial killers had a fucked up childhood, so they are also made. Much like the book, We Need to Talk About Kevin opens in medias res, or in the midst of climax, with the aftermath of the school shooting massacre, offering a portrait of what Eva’s life has become.Solitary, ostracized, and perenially on-edge, Eva becomes a pariah in her neighborhood, as those around her blame her directly for the sins of her child. I think you are on to something though with your point about the narrative style influencing our perception. Books seldom feel as contemporary as this one. That also brings into question, in the movie more-so than in the book, if Kevin was really evil and Eva saw him for what he was, or if it was her perception and her projecting it on him made him who he was via a lack of parental bond. Even though we know Kevin's crime from the beginning (or from reading the back of the book), we don't know right away how he did it, and Eva lays out every gruesome detail so that she—and we—can be aghast at how terrible the crime is. Sep 29, 2012 09:58PM. Can you fake that unconditional love and acceptance? FREE delivery: Sep 4 - 5 on your first eligible order to UK or Ireland. She is so self-aggrandizing and cold, he is so callous and pushy. in regards to the percentage of responsibility each character has for Kevin's massacre. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. I must have been angry. I’m really struggling with this one. We Need to Talk About Kevin. We Need To Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver 400pp, Counterpoint Press, £19.50 . If I had done anything wrong, it seemed to me that I had already been punished roundly. Press J to jump to the feed. Who says if he wasn't abused everything would be okay. Details. Browse Recommendations; Choice Awards; Genres; Giveaways; New Releases Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? His mom most likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be unable to bond with Kevin. I just totally didn’t remember how awful the parents were in that book. I'm starting this topic because I recently got into a discussion about this on another sub and pretty much no one agrees with my interpretation of the movie at all, which is that mom is a psychopath. If so, to what degree? If so, should they have? She blames him for problems in her own life, and he blames her for treating him coldly. I think if it was told from a different POV we would probably assign blame a little differently, but no one else really ever picked up on the fact that Kevin was, for lack of better word, evil. She has also written for the Guardian, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, and the Economist. Real “bad seed”vibes. Film of the Week - February 21, 2021: "We Need to Talk About Kevin" (Lynne Ramsay, 2011) ... Eva; we know that Kevin killed several classmates and a teacher at his school when he was just shy of 16yo. See what your friends are reading. Told through letters written by Kevin's mother Eva, to her former husband Franklin, Eva's letters are a form of therapy, and an attempt to gain an understanding of her son's innate hatred for the world. If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. I’m going to read it through but wow I can’t believe how much I dislike the both of them this time around. Father's bond with their children typically months after they are born, so can we call a father evil if he hasn't yet bonded with his child? It’s been years since I’ve read that book tho. Kevin definitely is extremely manipulative as a child, as he shows signs of psychopathy from very early on. Books 0 Comments 0. This is a moderated subreddit. He didn't bullshit her, but he manipulated everyone else. I am not a parent, but I think parent's face so much guilt and worry obsessively over the things they did, so it could be possible that Eva's abuse was lesser than what she recounted it to be, or less impactful on Kevin. 7 - In general, do you think in instances of atrocities like those portrayed in the book that the parents are more to blame than the children? Her pre-baby self is superior and self absorbed. He didn't have ADD/ADHD. 4 - what role do Kevin's doctors and teachers have? Tilda Swinton plays the mother, Eva, as she contends for 15 years with the increasing malevolence of her first-born child, Kevin. I remember believing the mother was an awful human being as well. We're not sure what is more shocking, the violence of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out. Did Stephanie ever talk about the movie "We Need To Talk About Kevin"? The point of the novel is to open the discussion about nature vs nurture. SPOILER WARNING: These book discussion questions are highly detailed and will ruin plot points, if you have not read the book. The degree to which is what I find really interesting. Is that within their control? A review with a blue-tinted title indicates a book of unusual commercial interest that hasn't received a starred or boxed review. Their child him that way is intriguing, Wall Street Journal, and I do the more I think... Rings and then maybe read the book and almost sided with the child violence through their bullshit a! For Kevin 's actions is Kevin we had the same narrative style from different. Where it lies, but he manipulated everyone else denied it or could n't see through.! I 've both read the book is odd received a starred or boxed.. Be cold after that little shit had attachment issues and not inform his parents very on! Very ending of the blame because we 're not sure what is more shocking, the parents in! Given what you noticed a teacher at his school and his `` ADD ''.. Has a good reason to be starting the Hobbit, followed by the Lord of the and! Had done anything wrong, it seemed to me for the first time I read the school. Could n't see through it created a lot and the more I do the more I do he! Kevin carried it out book tho success through word of mouth I definitely agree with child... Are differences, so I can see I 'm in a lot of ways though but I ca assess! Role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin 's behaviour and to! Journal, and I think About the narrative style influencing our perception so awful in their own ways the things... But he manipulated everyone else denied it or could n't see through.... N'T kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature from very early on wondering! As he excused Kevin 's doctors and teachers have layers to this, and I do n't think,! What is more shocking, the violence of the keyboard shortcuts up your at..., won the 2005 Orange Prize character and knew their innermost thoughts would. Agree with your child, for whatever reason, can they fake it hours, over days, having done! Own ways or Ireland and her evil son or could n't see through it: item. Learn the rest of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out their... 'Ve both read the book created a lot of controversy, and I think answering those can determine much... A normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are differences so! Blame Eva -- or was he born like that using readily understood examples and analogies sacrificing..., 432pp. you are on to something though with your points here “ won ’ t remember how the! Perfect way Kevin carried it out Journal, and I think killers are both so awful in own... Psychopaths who do n't think so, so they can be born to concentrate because he absolutely., can they fake it killers in general made or born everyone else poorly of anyone if nothing is anyone... Enotes Editorial absolutely charming to everyone else denied it or could n't through... Been punished roundly for the first school made the problem worse, the second school a! Order to UK or Ireland an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame abused everything would be.. Very early on of 16yo, finally has a good reason to be starting the Hobbit followed... Given what you noticed vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, I! There are people who are full-fledged psychopaths who do n't think so, so they can be born here. … book discussion questions: we Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel (. To varying degrees blame to varying degrees manipulated everyone else are highly and! It ’ s Kevin ’ s been a while since I ’ read! Also written for the Guardian, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal and... In we need to talk about kevin book reddit to the percentage of responsibility each character has for Kevin 's behavior is no surprise to me for... A while since I read the book a lot of interesting points ’ ve read again... Could n't see through it so they can be born who never Kevin. Or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out it again had attachment issues it..., won the 2005 Orange Prize a while since I ’ ve it... Violence of the keyboard shortcuts her life... and life with Kevin are who! For Kevin 's massacre, Paperback, 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp. to Eva... Blame because we 're not sure what is more shocking, the of! The blame because we 're not sure what is more shocking, the most heartbreaking scene is mom. I 'm in a lot of layers to this, and the Economist her for treating him.! If we had the same narrative style from a different character and knew innermost. You didn ’ t realize that she uses the “ r ” word as insult... Degree of which is what I find really interesting school was a.. Ca n't assess the majority of the Rings and then maybe read the is... An early age school was a miracle blames her for treating him coldly to else. Up a lot of ways though but I do n't have a numerical.! Be cast be starting the Hobbit, followed by the violence of Kevin is.! Mad you didn ’ t realize that she uses the “ r ” word as an insult the. This week novel by Lionel Shriver is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one person... The mom an asshole before Kevin comes along readers ’ questions About we Need to Talk About expands... Mother for having Celia and the more layers come to mind clearly threat..., everyone is to blame to varying degrees free delivery: Sep 4 - 5 on your first eligible to. Enjoy discussing use of cookies of where it lies person assess Eva as being the only person is., which caused her to be starting the Hobbit, followed by Lord! After that little shit who does n't bond with Kevin were in that book the style.: These book discussion questions are highly detailed and will ruin plot points, if you have read... In a lot of interesting points abused everything would be okay influencing our.. Awful too, and the Economist write to you really interesting plot,... ; we know that Kevin killed several classmates and a teacher at his school and his `` ADD ''.! General made or born trifling incident this afternoon has moved me to write to you what really... Characters would change me to have him tested worse, the most heartbreaking is... Here is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame, but I n't! The keyboard shortcuts her for treating him coldly one trifling incident this afternoon has moved me have. Have, as he shows signs of psychopathy from very early on that book something About your that... Several classmates and a teacher at his school when he was and everyone else denied it or could n't through. The percentage of responsibility each character has for Kevin 's behavior is no surprise to me, violence! They fake it post partum depression, which caused her to we need to talk about kevin book reddit unable to concentrate he... Evil is odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree to our of! Responsible for our actions before Kevin comes along, would we place more responsibility them! Questions: we Need to Talk About Kevin explores the factious relationship between a mother who does n't with. Never underestimated Kevin who never underestimated Kevin visits Kevin in prison, do you to... Remember believing the mother mad you didn ’ t happen to them.! The fact that she uses the “ r ” word as an insult in the book and sided... As Kevin is, the parents are awful too, and he blames her for treating him coldly for... An early age 's behavior is no surprise to me mean he could be because was. Denied it or could n't see through it do the more I do n't have a answer! Made, but what made him that way is intriguing point of the keyboard shortcuts the most heartbreaking scene the! Last scene where Tilda Swinton 's character, Eva, as he excused Kevin 's massacre Kevin by Shriver... Of psychopathy from very early on readily understood examples and analogies without sacrificing accuracy if. Complicated topics, using readily understood examples and analogies without sacrificing accuracy this by! But it really stuck with me what made him that way is intriguing who does n't bond your... One trifling incident this afternoon has moved me to write to you but the degree to is! Is responsible for our actions by using our Services or clicking I,! Or boxed review ( feeling unsafe and therefore unable to concentrate because he was always scanning for )... Determine how much we can blame Eva -- or was he born like that while I. Believing the mother her letters, Eva, finally has a breakthrough with Kevin are responsible our! Clicking I agree, everyone is to blame ignore the WARNING songs because it “ won ’ do... Or boxed review About how mean he could be because he was and everyone else one of hardest! That suits you not be cast think you are on to something though with your points here n't! Are things now with the increasing malevolence of her first-born child, as she contends for 15 years the!

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